Sunday, July 26, 2009
round 1
i'll start off with:
this is not really an argument about which is "better" overall...("better" was sort of tounge in cheek in the first post) i made that decision almost ten years ago, when "cheap" dslr's cost 5k or more - and i traded my film slr for a 3 megapixel point and shoot... besides, it doesnt matter what i would say, or countless other "experts" before me have said. digital is here to stay, and film will continue to become more and more of a lost art form. actually, i think its been a lost art form for many years already, but thats just me :)
this is more a subjective comparison of the subtleties that make up digital/analog images, spurred by a conversation about some cat using his k-1000 in place of spending fat cash on a 5D (full frame sensor slr). the conversation eventually degraded into a film/digital/noise/grain/resolution debate of course, (the mere mention of film opposed to digital just seems to get people's panties in bunch or something ;) go figure... (and i admit that asking "which is better..." was a mistake on my part, i should have just said i'd demonstrate the differences - my bad).
on a side note, i coveted a 5d for a while, but when i think about it - i dig my 1.6 crop - in fact, what i really covet is another peleng fisheye (allen - i have the old one if you still want it).
anyhow, i shot and processed a roll today. sadly, i didnt capture anything very compelling, but i did manage to capture some similar images with each camera. also got a keen deal on processing -just over $5 for processing, prints, and a cd...
the digital images are as shot, no post processing. film images are also as shot, straight from the cd/scans
100% crop comparisons:
these are touched up a bit:
film was scanned at a pixel size of 1818x1228 - sort of small compared to the 3072 pixels of the digital camera. for 8x10's, these will have to scanned at a higher res. that said - the scans looked surprisingly good, if not a little oversharpened and maybe just a bit contrasty. but the colors looked great, and i still dig the look of grain on screen. the 4x6 prints were crisp, colorful and grain free.
at 100% zoom, the low resolution of the scans became quite apparent, and the digital files held much more information (of course). but when displayed on a screen at normal viewing size, neither film nor digital appear defficient.
digital was shot in raw as well as iso 400 - and the unprocessed raw files were quite flat and soft compared to the scanned film. but that is to be expected, you shoot raw to allow for widest range of adjustments in post processing.
once edited, the digital files were as poppy as the film images. will do some prints of the edited images to compare - 4x6 and 8x10s in a couple days.
this is not really an argument about which is "better" overall...("better" was sort of tounge in cheek in the first post) i made that decision almost ten years ago, when "cheap" dslr's cost 5k or more - and i traded my film slr for a 3 megapixel point and shoot... besides, it doesnt matter what i would say, or countless other "experts" before me have said. digital is here to stay, and film will continue to become more and more of a lost art form. actually, i think its been a lost art form for many years already, but thats just me :)
this is more a subjective comparison of the subtleties that make up digital/analog images, spurred by a conversation about some cat using his k-1000 in place of spending fat cash on a 5D (full frame sensor slr). the conversation eventually degraded into a film/digital/noise/grain/resolution debate of course, (the mere mention of film opposed to digital just seems to get people's panties in bunch or something ;) go figure... (and i admit that asking "which is better..." was a mistake on my part, i should have just said i'd demonstrate the differences - my bad).
on a side note, i coveted a 5d for a while, but when i think about it - i dig my 1.6 crop - in fact, what i really covet is another peleng fisheye (allen - i have the old one if you still want it).
anyhow, i shot and processed a roll today. sadly, i didnt capture anything very compelling, but i did manage to capture some similar images with each camera. also got a keen deal on processing -just over $5 for processing, prints, and a cd...
the digital images are as shot, no post processing. film images are also as shot, straight from the cd/scans
100% crop comparisons:
these are touched up a bit:
film was scanned at a pixel size of 1818x1228 - sort of small compared to the 3072 pixels of the digital camera. for 8x10's, these will have to scanned at a higher res. that said - the scans looked surprisingly good, if not a little oversharpened and maybe just a bit contrasty. but the colors looked great, and i still dig the look of grain on screen. the 4x6 prints were crisp, colorful and grain free.
at 100% zoom, the low resolution of the scans became quite apparent, and the digital files held much more information (of course). but when displayed on a screen at normal viewing size, neither film nor digital appear defficient.
digital was shot in raw as well as iso 400 - and the unprocessed raw files were quite flat and soft compared to the scanned film. but that is to be expected, you shoot raw to allow for widest range of adjustments in post processing.
once edited, the digital files were as poppy as the film images. will do some prints of the edited images to compare - 4x6 and 8x10s in a couple days.
Friday, July 24, 2009
This is Only A Test
Inspired by a thread on DPreview.com, I've decided to conduct a test. Even though I am already sure of the results, I am going to conduct the test anyways.
The test is: Film Vs. Digital - a real world, everyman approach. No resolution charts, MTF curves, special film processing, nothing fancy or scientific. keeping it simple...
also, since i'm typing one handed, no more caps...
what would i hope to demonstrate?
which is "better" - of course...and what really quantifies "better" anyhow?
resolution/clarity
grain vs. noise
ease of processing/post processing
colors
conversion to b/w
xtreme processing, like hdr or other heavy image tweaking
overall aesthetic appeal - I hear people say "there's just some quality about a film image, that i can't put a finger on, that makes it more appealing/better/different than digital" (i've said this myself). to adress this point i will compare lab prints as well as home/inkjet prints...
as to whether digital is more/less expensive, here's a quote from the thread on dpreview:
"A used 5D is $1000. A decent film is $5, decent film developing also is $5. Getting a decent print is even more expensive and harder to find by the day. Scanning is a way around that but a decent filmscanner doesn't come cheap either. At $10 for film and development, 100 films equals a used 5D. 100 films is not alot, even before digital photo-enthousiasts shot more than that in a year."
i've shot, developed and printed (both via darkroom and inkjet) with color and bw film - its where i started almost 10 years ago - but i've never really compared them side-by-side - i've only juxtaposed the processes from a distance. at the moment, i find myself with resources to perform the comparison, and i look forward to the results.
the players:
pretty much everyman film... 400 speed, c-41. yes, there are better films - an were i shooting for $$$ i would use it - but thse represent what an average joe might have loaded in their picture takers...
thats my pentax k-1000 and my canon eos 650 film cameras.
and the recently repaired digital rebel with the 20d.
originally, i planned on using all 4, but since most photos will be shot during a 14 mile hike - i'll only be taking the rebel and the eos 650. if i come across enough interesting subjects, i'll try to use both the color and b/w films - otherwise it'll only be the color film.
film will initially be processed at a local lab using the one-hour service with basic scan to cd using whatever their standard resolution scans are. once i've culled a couple "winners" out, i will those frames scanned at the highest res available locally. i'll also scan the same frames myself using a flatbed epson scanner @3200dpi.
images will compared on screen as well side-by-prints.
there will also be a few different methods of printing for the film:
- from high-res lab scans; no post processing except for dust emoval
- from high-res lab scans; post processed via lightroom & photooshop
- lab prints directly from the negative; 4x6 and 8x10/8x12
- inkjet prints from the best scans; post processed specifically for inkjet prints
- 4x6/8x10 lab prints prints directly from the card; no post processing
- 8x10 lab prints - post processed via lightroom/photoshop
- 8x10 inkjet prints - post processed via lightroom/photoshop
i understand, this comparison has been done - probably numerous times - by people far more experienced/knowledgeable than i, but i stll see debates about the subject. i see samples online - scans and screenshot comparisons... and i'm not trying to prove anything really. i just want to see for myself, to have the examples in hand.
predictions/expectations:
- digital files will look "cleaner"* on screen
- up to 8x10, i don't expect to see any appreciable difference between files of equal processing
- i expect digital files will require less hassle to achieve a decent print
tomorrow i head out the door with the two cameras....
Okay...
Fireworks - July 4th Silverton, CO.
First - I have to say I think it sucks that George was effectively robbed of the Yellow Jersey on Saturday. Bummer.
Frolic: Su bounces down a trail near-ish Mini Gulch...
So. I have officially moved. I now co-habitate with the keenest female I've ever met, and things are swimming along swimmingly - we are happy and it is good.
And thats really the biggest news of all, really. Did a keen little camping/jeep escapade over the 4th which was cool. gave me a chance to test out the radio-remote for the (now repaired) Digital Rebel. Set the camera up for focus and exposure, then sat about 30 feet away while Iheld hands with my girl, firing the shutter every minute or so wiyh the free hand while the pyrotechnics went on. Worked like a charm.
The next day we packed up and wandered about the mountain roads, seeing what there is to see...
We were originally looking fo Stony Pass, but wrong turn brought us by this keen old mill. the tracks end right there, you can see the underside in the next photo...
this structure sits somewhere above 10,000 feet...
eventually, we did find Stony Pass - at about 12,650 feet...
and part of the Continental Divide Trail...
also found a couple puddles - That's friend's Nicole and Ben...
Ultimately we ended up in Creed, CO. Not exactly a Metropolis - after a restroom break and quick inspection of their skatepark, we made our way to Pagosa and then home to Bayfield....
It was shaping up to be a killer summer... great times already, living with the coolest person... and a very respectable downhill rig sitting in the garage, just waiting to attack the steep and rocky stuff....
View from the back of the pick-up/shuttle vehicle on the Sasquatch run (un-official name)....
And finally, I was getting back to actually pushing limits...
Out behind Forest Lakes (where I now reside with the coolest girl...)
And.. was getting into the circle of local DH riders for photo ops...
Well... all good things...balance... Karma... I dunno what struck (probably just general careless-ness ;))... But after work one about ten days ago, that coolest girl offered to drop me off at the top of an ATV trail out behind the house. Its a keen rocky and rough downhill about 2 miles maybe from top to bottom. So, geared up, packed the bike, and headed upwards. Got out at the top, and for some stupid reason, I figured I'd just descend the first couple hundred yards through some thick, steep brush - no trail.
First 25 yards went pretty well, then the brush got quite thick, and became so rocky that I slowed to just above walking speed as the 8 inch travel bike took friendly bounces from rock to log, to rock... and then my front wheel just stopped. In fact, the whole bike just stoppd. Which was particularly troubling because my body remained in motion, and that motion translated to a trip over the bars.
I cannot count how many times I've gone over the bars -thousands maybe - on ramps, off of ramps, down stairs, over parking blocks... and usually I've emerged bruised or cut (or both) but never broken. In fact, I've never suffered an official break or fracture...
As I went over the bars, I tried to spot a place for my hands to land, but the foliage was too thick to see the ground, and I put my hands down blindly - and quickly - into the rocks and "stuff". Not sure my hand was even extended - most likely I put my left down backside first, right in to the edge of a nice edgey rock.
Immediately I "knew" that I had broken my hand. But the girl JUST dropped me off, and even witnissed the fall. I had gloves on, and the pain was nowhere near what I imagined a fractured metacarpal to feel like - so I rode trail out, all the way to the bottom, at speed, including the quarter mile uphill hike back to the road (hey - if it was really broken, I had to get one last ride in!)
(wish i had a burlier story, like goofing a 360 down a 10ft drop or something, but it was just a freak slip up)
Once at home, we took the glove off to reveal a nice goose egg sized lump, and decided to get it checked out. X-ray confirmed fractures to numbers 4 and 5 on my left hand. ER doc tried to set it (which DID feel like it was broken), but it was decided that they were too tweaked out, would require surgery, and I was referred to a specialist.
A week later, I sit typing with one hand complete with six or more screws and at least two plates. No cast, but a bulky splint. Doc says splint comes off in 3 weeks, then PT begins. 4-6 months before I'm 100%. 2 years before my $10k hand is paid for (inurance, if you have it, is a good thing - I do no have it).
Other than that... I went on a jeep safari which was arranged by :avatarbennance: ... Originally I was going to go along for a few days, but the hand thing sort of changed that, only got to shoot/ride along for one day... still, it was pretty cool and a nice diversion:
Digital Rebel with hoya infra-red filter
Jeeps heading up Corkscrew Pass
Looking down from California Pass
Someone that earned their turns...
Ghost town/mill at Animas Forks....
So thats about it for now - hand is tired ;) Hope all is well out there, Thanks for looking!
Fireworks - July 4th Silverton, CO.
First - I have to say I think it sucks that George was effectively robbed of the Yellow Jersey on Saturday. Bummer.
Frolic: Su bounces down a trail near-ish Mini Gulch...
So. I have officially moved. I now co-habitate with the keenest female I've ever met, and things are swimming along swimmingly - we are happy and it is good.
And thats really the biggest news of all, really. Did a keen little camping/jeep escapade over the 4th which was cool. gave me a chance to test out the radio-remote for the (now repaired) Digital Rebel. Set the camera up for focus and exposure, then sat about 30 feet away while Iheld hands with my girl, firing the shutter every minute or so wiyh the free hand while the pyrotechnics went on. Worked like a charm.
The next day we packed up and wandered about the mountain roads, seeing what there is to see...
We were originally looking fo Stony Pass, but wrong turn brought us by this keen old mill. the tracks end right there, you can see the underside in the next photo...
this structure sits somewhere above 10,000 feet...
eventually, we did find Stony Pass - at about 12,650 feet...
and part of the Continental Divide Trail...
also found a couple puddles - That's friend's Nicole and Ben...
Ultimately we ended up in Creed, CO. Not exactly a Metropolis - after a restroom break and quick inspection of their skatepark, we made our way to Pagosa and then home to Bayfield....
It was shaping up to be a killer summer... great times already, living with the coolest person... and a very respectable downhill rig sitting in the garage, just waiting to attack the steep and rocky stuff....
View from the back of the pick-up/shuttle vehicle on the Sasquatch run (un-official name)....
And finally, I was getting back to actually pushing limits...
Out behind Forest Lakes (where I now reside with the coolest girl...)
And.. was getting into the circle of local DH riders for photo ops...
Well... all good things...balance... Karma... I dunno what struck (probably just general careless-ness ;))... But after work one about ten days ago, that coolest girl offered to drop me off at the top of an ATV trail out behind the house. Its a keen rocky and rough downhill about 2 miles maybe from top to bottom. So, geared up, packed the bike, and headed upwards. Got out at the top, and for some stupid reason, I figured I'd just descend the first couple hundred yards through some thick, steep brush - no trail.
First 25 yards went pretty well, then the brush got quite thick, and became so rocky that I slowed to just above walking speed as the 8 inch travel bike took friendly bounces from rock to log, to rock... and then my front wheel just stopped. In fact, the whole bike just stoppd. Which was particularly troubling because my body remained in motion, and that motion translated to a trip over the bars.
I cannot count how many times I've gone over the bars -thousands maybe - on ramps, off of ramps, down stairs, over parking blocks... and usually I've emerged bruised or cut (or both) but never broken. In fact, I've never suffered an official break or fracture...
As I went over the bars, I tried to spot a place for my hands to land, but the foliage was too thick to see the ground, and I put my hands down blindly - and quickly - into the rocks and "stuff". Not sure my hand was even extended - most likely I put my left down backside first, right in to the edge of a nice edgey rock.
Immediately I "knew" that I had broken my hand. But the girl JUST dropped me off, and even witnissed the fall. I had gloves on, and the pain was nowhere near what I imagined a fractured metacarpal to feel like - so I rode trail out, all the way to the bottom, at speed, including the quarter mile uphill hike back to the road (hey - if it was really broken, I had to get one last ride in!)
(wish i had a burlier story, like goofing a 360 down a 10ft drop or something, but it was just a freak slip up)
Once at home, we took the glove off to reveal a nice goose egg sized lump, and decided to get it checked out. X-ray confirmed fractures to numbers 4 and 5 on my left hand. ER doc tried to set it (which DID feel like it was broken), but it was decided that they were too tweaked out, would require surgery, and I was referred to a specialist.
A week later, I sit typing with one hand complete with six or more screws and at least two plates. No cast, but a bulky splint. Doc says splint comes off in 3 weeks, then PT begins. 4-6 months before I'm 100%. 2 years before my $10k hand is paid for (inurance, if you have it, is a good thing - I do no have it).
Other than that... I went on a jeep safari which was arranged by :avatarbennance: ... Originally I was going to go along for a few days, but the hand thing sort of changed that, only got to shoot/ride along for one day... still, it was pretty cool and a nice diversion:
Digital Rebel with hoya infra-red filter
Jeeps heading up Corkscrew Pass
Looking down from California Pass
Someone that earned their turns...
Ghost town/mill at Animas Forks....
So thats about it for now - hand is tired ;) Hope all is well out there, Thanks for looking!
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